No key arrived

[charliem]

Today I requested an API key and it didn't arrive. I requested another key and I got an error saying I already had one. I decided to sign up to the forum and only after I had entered my details did it tell me if I didn't send an email via the contact form I'd be added to the blacklist as a bot so I begrudgingly did this despite the fact that it is illegal to make such threats. In my message I not only entered the required information to have my account activated but also requested help with the API key and mentioned my disgust at the way anyone who signs up to this forum is treated.

I am also wondering why the people running this anti spam bot service have not used their own software and have, instead, made life very difficult for new forum members by insisting that they send an email with their details  requesting activation.

I have had a reply from a chap called Mike but unfortunately his reply address bounces as unknown.

Marvellous!

I have, for now, used an existing key but I suspect I'll be at the 300 queries limit pretty soon. The new site should be very busy.

I'm not trying to be a tw@t and I do appreciate the free service being provided but this is like a Monty Python sketch.

[Mike]

You mistyped your email address when you entered it. There's not really any way for us to know that you didn't enter your email address properly (how could we know??).

1) No, it's not illegal to add your email address to our database.

2) We're receiving email here with no problem as far as we can tell. In fact, we received your request (and your reply) for help via our email form, so it appears to be working as far as we can tell. If you'll send us the error message or bounced email, we'll be glad to have a look. But since you've been able to send and reply to our emails, we're not sure what the problem is. Maybe you mistyped our email address, or replied to a "no-repy" address. (??)

3) The reason we don't protect our own forum with BotScout is because we use it as a honeypot- we get hundreds of bots signing up there every day, and we add them to our "known bot" database to help improve the effectiveness of our service. It's a great way for us to catch more bots, especially new ones, and in the end this helps prevent more bots from signing up on your forum.

4) Your login details were sent to you, so you can login and change your email address.

5) If you're that dissatisfied with our service, feel free to use another one. We can recommend several if you like.

Mike

Today I requested an API key and it didn't arrive. I requested another key and I got an error saying I already had one. I decided to sign up to the forum and only after I had entered my details did it tell me if I didn't send an email via the contact form I'd be added to the blacklist as a bot so I begrudgingly did this despite the fact that it is illegal to make such threats. In my message I not only entered the required information to have my account activated but also requested help with the API key and mentioned my disgust at the way anyone who signs up to this forum is treated.

I am also wondering why the people running this anti spam bot service have not used their own software and have, instead, made life very difficult for new forum members by insisting that they send an email with their details  requesting activation.

I have had a reply from a chap called Mike but unfortunately his reply address bounces as unknown.

Marvellous!

I have, for now, used an existing key but I suspect I'll be at the 300 queries limit pretty soon. The new site should be very busy.

I'm not trying to be a tw@t and I do appreciate the free service being provided but this is like a Monty Python sketch.

[charliem]

How could we know? You couldn't but you could introduce functionality for someone to re-request it/cancel it or something other than just "oops, you made a typo, now you can't use the service, bye!".

It is illegal to knowingly add an email address to a database which claims it is connected to a bot with no evidence that it is. In fact, it's libellous. That's what it's called when you make a derogatory statement, in writing or in digital form, that you cannot prove. Your forum accepted my sign up but then said, if I don't send you an email with my username and password in it you'll simply add my email address to your database of spambots. What if I decide I can't be bothered with your over the top, rude, unfriendly forum sign up process. You libel yourselves? Madness and yes, actually illegal.

If you are that dissatisfied with our service.....

Didn't say I was dissatisfied, I said I wasn't impressed. At that I was talking about the forum signup threat, the email with a bouncy return address etc, I was even careful to qualify my position by saying I appreciate the free service you provide.

Here is the failure message generated by replying to your email....

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

    mike@pentamail.com

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the recipient domain. We recommend contacting the other email provider for further information about the cause of this error. The error that the other server returned was: 550 550 5.7.1 <mike@pentamail.com>: Recipient address rejected: temporarily blocked because of previous errors - retrying too fast. penalty: 30 seconds x 0 retries. (state 14).

----- Original message -----

MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.180.4.102 with SMTP id j6mr10227178wij.38.1322836892249; Fri,
 02 Dec 2011 06:41:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.180.84.106 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Dec 2011 06:41:32 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <19f6d272939621b15534996aa4f05f32.squirrel@96.44.142.138>
References: <20111202142221.8E2785B68E9@quad1.bscout.com>
       <19f6d272939621b15534996aa4f05f32.squirrel@96.44.142.138>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 14:41:32 +0000
Message-ID: <CAMb22+Z=VWjpU_-9xLEjoNbsLPRpcaK8-z5Ck7yxFcpb******@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: BotScout Contact Form
From: ******* *****<************@gmail.com>
To: mike@pentamail.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d041554780eefe204b31cf7e2

Seems your grey listing went a little awry. Gmail's wait and resend policy is pretty standard yet your server seems to have reacted as if the retry was too soon. Another oddity is your server's response which says the penalty for a retry attempted to soon after greylisting is 30 seconds x 0, now that's a little odd.

BTW most people configure servers not to bother greylisting hotmail, gmail, yahoo mail etc as we know they are going to respond in the appropriate way there is no hope of filtering spam from such domains by greylisting and doing so is simply a waste of resources. Especially if your server delivers the message anyway.

There's no need to be so combative. I was making some perfectly reasonable observations about some perceived shortfalls in how your system works, you take them and do something constructive with them, you can ignore them, or you can write clever, defensive retorts. What ever youthink is the best use of your time and the feedback provided.

[charliem]

Oh, and thanks for sending my login credentials with the typo'd email address. I'll log in and change it soon. I assume there will then be the function to re-generate the key?

[charliem]

Just another thought. How about introducing a "confirm email" field in the api key request form with validation set to that it checks the two fields ("email" and "confirm email" contain the same string, this would prevent people from entering their emails with typo's in them. The code is pretty simple. I could post something that would work if you like.

[Mike]

How could we know? You couldn't but you could introduce functionality for someone to re-request it/cancel it or something other than just "oops, you made a typo, now you can't use the service, bye!".

There are two mechanisms in place for this, one is to request a lost password, the other is to contact us. Please don't blame us because you didn't type your own email address in correctly.

It is illegal to knowingly add an email address to a database which claims it is connected to a bot with no evidence that it is. In fact, it's libellous.

No, actually it's not. Trust me, we've been through this many times with lots of different people and services. It's not libel, it's not slander, it's not anything.

There's no need to be so combative.

And there was no need for you to be such a dick in your first contact with us.

I was making some perfectly reasonable observations about some perceived shortfalls in how your system works

No, you were being a dick, complaining about a service we spend a fair amount of time providing to people like you for free. And this whole thing started because you, yes *you* didn't enter your email address correctly- not something we have any control over.

If you don't like the way we operate, feel free to start your own service, Charlie. Commission a server, outfit it, and then pay for it out of your own pocket every month. Then you can deal with an endless stream ungrateful, short-tempered people who can't enter their own email address into a form correctly.

[Mike]

Just another thought. How about introducing a "confirm email" field in the api key request form

This is one item in a long list of "to do" tasks we've been working our way through.

The code is pretty simple. I could post something that would work if you like.

No thank you.

[Mike]

Oh, and thanks for sending my login credentials with the typo'd email address.

You're welcome.

I'll log in and change it soon.

Good.

I assume there will then be the function to re-generate the key?

No. Why would you need to create a new API key?